American attitudes toward immigration are hardening, according to a new Gallup poll. Half of all Americans say immigration should be "decreased" - up 11 points from 39 percent last year.
Anti-immigration sentiment is growing across all major political groupings. Some 61 percent of Republicans say they would like to see immigration decreased, up from 46 percent in 2008, compared to 46 percent of Democrats, up from 39 percent; and 44 percent
of Independents, up from 37 percent.
The poll also saw a shift in American attitudes toward whether
"immigration is a good or a bad thing for the country" with more than a
third (36 percent) saying it is a bad thing.
Gallup notes that this marks "a return to the attitudes that prevailed in the first few years after 9/11."
Immigration in America has gone in great cycles over the past century or two. While immigration has typically fallen during economic crises, the U.S. has prospered from its relative openness to global talent. America saw an influx of leading scientists, entrepreneurs, artists, and musicians during the Great Depression which helped bolster its position at the frontiers of science, technology, entrepreneurship, and the arts during the long post-war boom.
Economic crises are transformative periods when talent flows can be reset and countries and regions rise and decline. The future belongs to those countries and regions that can attract the best and brightest across the entire world.
Growing anti-immigrant sentiment, should it continue, is bad news for American technology, entrepreneurship, and the economy in general. Let's hope it turns around.
Richard Florida
"Growing anti-immigrant sentiment, should it continue, is bad news for American technology, entrepreneurship, and the economy in general."
Right, because without all of those 4th grade dropouts coming over from Mexico, Silicon Valley will grind to a halt. Think of all the tech start-ups that have been founded by Mexican immigrants! It's transparently dishonest for you to conflate the immigration of third world illiterates with that of scientists, engineers, etc.
The 4th grade drop-outs from Mexico you refer to will not run Silicon Valley, true. Their children will run it. Or whatever "Silicon Valley" is by then. Their grand-children may employ your grand-children. Think about the Chinese, Irish, or Japanese immigrants of an earlier day. You could have said the same of them. These people may be 4th-grade drop-outs, but they are hard-working, family-oriented, will sacrifice everything for their offspring, and they are playing a longer game than you.
"The 4th grade drop-outs from Mexico you refer to will not run Silicon Valley, true. Their children will run it."
Please.
"Think about the Chinese, Irish, or Japanese immigrants of an earlier day. You could have said the same of them."
Think about the Mexican immigrants of an earlier day. You do realize, don't you, that there have been Mexican immigrants in the U.S. as long as there have been Chinese and Japanese immigrants? Even fourth-generation Mexican Americans fail to assimilate to mean levels of economic or educational achievement.
So is this about Anti-Immigration or Anti-Mexican Immigration?
Well Horace, I certainly appreciate your refreshingly candid, straight-up racism. So unusual in this day and age of euphemism! The Mexican immigrants of any earlier day have assimilated, of course. What, you think their kids/grandkids are all farm workers? Christ. The new ones will take a while. Not that you'll notice.
You don't think the UCLA researchers took this into account?
I doubt it, or else the study didn't concern itself with non pure-blood Americans of Mexican heritage (which I suspect constitute most such people). Academics aren't immune to the joys of ax-grinding any more than any other representatives of our species (eg., Borjas, etc.).
If most fourth generation Mexican Americans are high school dropouts...
Again, a "fourth generation" anything means only that you have at least one great grandparent out of eight from the relevant group. So, no, I doubt very much that "most" such people are high school dropouts, which renders the rest of your comment meaningless.
"Again, a "fourth generation" anything means only that you have at least one great grandparent out of eight from the relevant group."
You are talking out of your ass here, as you are clearly unfamiliar with the study. And you are also unfamiliar with American mating patterns. What percentage of Mexican Americans with two Mexican American parents will marry a white person? A negligible percentage.
Sorry, Raymond, but the stats simply don't bear that out. Numerous studies, the most recent, multi-generational, longitudinal study out of UCLA last year ("Generations of Exclusion," principal investigators Edward Telles PhD and Vilma Ortiz PhD) shows that the second generation of Mexican-Americans do better than their parents, but stall in the third generation, and actually decline in the fourth. Mexican-Americans, according to this study, have the lowest college graduation rate of all ethnic groups, including African Americans.
The problem is obviously not a deficit in innate talent, ability or brain power, but, rather, (a)a cultural mindset that places academic and economic achievement secondary to other priorities; (b) the racialization of our society that "expects" certain minorities to perform at a lower level; and (c) the self-fulfilling prophecy of that expectation. Also, generational low achievement coupled with large families keep poverty ongoing.
Also, one of the most important factors that makes this current wave of immigration different from past ones is that we have the largest community of immigrants from the same country, same language and same culture, which makes assimilation into the mainstream "unnecessary." If they choose, they may continue to live in "Mexican" communities here in the US; that is particularly evident in southern California.
Raymond Larrett:
Steve Sailer has come up with the term "hate fact" to explain the reaction of people like you to factual comments with which they disagree. I just pointed out facts about how fourth generation Mexican Americans fail to assimilate to mainstream norms of educational or economic achievement, and you called me a racist for pointing those facts; ergo, they were "hate facts".
Robin5K:
Why is it "obviously" true to you that this isn't the case? Do you, like Atlantic correspondent David Shenk, believe that there's a genius in all of us? Consider the possibility that mainstream science on intelligence is correct and that
A) Different groups have different average IQs.
B) IQ is probably between 50-80% hereditary.
If that's true, Mexican Americans on average will never achieve the level of assimilation and success in America that the Chinese, Irish, Jews, etc. have.
Deep skepticism is called for when it comes to the studies cited purportedly "proving" the lack of upward mobility of Americans of Mexican ancestry. Think about it: how many ethnic groups fail to engage in a great deal of intermarriage once they arrive in the states? I suspect the vast majority of fourth generation "Mexican" Americans don't consider themselves "Mexican" American at all -- because in most case only one or two of their great-grandparents were of Mexican heritage. I mean, is a person named "Murphy" with one or two (out of eight) Mexican great-grandparents counted in such studies? And if not, what you're probably getting is a small subset of Americans with Mexican heritage (namely, those who, for whatever reason, come from family backgrounds who poorly assimilated -- another words, poorer families).
Marriage is the ultimate exercise in assimilation, and until I see evidence that immigrants (and their kids) from Mexico are eschewing the traditional American practice of venturing outside the immigrant group for marriage and sexual partners, I'll continue to discount the ominous warnings coming from the anti-immigrant right.
Jasper,
You don't think the UCLA researchers took this into account? In any event, intermarriage rates are related to assimilation rates. If most fourth generation Mexican Americans are high school dropouts, they are probably going to marry (or more likely have kids out of wedlock) with other high school dropouts. That means most of them will hook up with other Mexican Americans, since there is often friction and animosity between Mexican Americans and the other big demographic group among high school dropout (blacks).
You are talking out of your ass here, as you are clearly unfamiliar with the study. And you are also unfamiliar with American mating patterns. What percentage of Mexican Americans with two Mexican American parents will marry a white person? A negligible percentage.
Don't be absurd, Horace. The "Mexican-Americans are a unassimilatable group destined to be mired in poverty" meme so beloved of the restrictionist right is not widely embraced or generally accepted by the academic community. Here's a peer-reviewed paper summarizing research by Stanford sociologist Michael Rosenfeld, whose conclusions would appear to contradict they UCLA study you cite:
http://www.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/marital%20assimilation.pdf
Strangely, though, this particular research didn't get picked up and trumpeted by Lou Dobbs or Steve Sailer.
And a cite, please, to back up your patently ridiculous claims about "negligible" rates of Mexican-American/Caucasian intermarriage.
Are talking illegal immigration here, or legal immigration?
I haven't met anyone who is opposed to legal immigration.
Illegal, well, we all know the general opinion on that.
What I think frustrates most people is the lack of policing of corporate America which uses the cheap labor of illegals.
I also beleive the federal policy of providing public housing, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc. creates a further problem. Especially when there is little done to terminate these "benefits" after a proscribed period of time.
Simply put, how can we have people living on the public dime, if there are job here in the USA? Because clearly there ARE jobs in the USA--the illegals have them!
Eliminate the public handouts and force Americans to earn/fund/run their own lives. A lack of jobs for illegals, since Americans will have to take them to earn/fund/run their own lives, will force a reduction in illegal immigration.
If you've been following the news for the past year or so, it's clear that American joblessness isn't a result of legal OR illegal immigration. Even if every non-citizen were deported, most Americans wouldn't be striving to pick up menial jobs which pay only a few dollars per hour.
Think of what would happen to Tech should we impose immigration restrictions on say, India. Even if Americans "earn/fund/run their own lives," the vast majority are not going to write their own software.
This is what's so ironic about anti-immigration Republicans. Immigrants and global workers are integral to modern capitalism in America, and limiting immigration would also limit progress.
Undoubtedly, there are many immigrants from all types of backgrounds who bring innovation and entrepreneurship to the US. Unfortunately, I think those people are the exception. While I have no data to back this up, I'd say that the vast majority of immigrants coming to the US are low-skilled people who are employed in low-wage jobs. Or at least, I'm sure, that's the perception for the people who were polled.
Personally, I'd like to see an expansion in the H1-B jobs available. The current H1-B quota of 65,000 is absurdly low. Unfortunately, the current economic climate we're in will only help to keep that quota low... at a time when we desperately need an influx of smart innovators.
I think there's mild concern about legal immigration, in the sense that some tech workers find their pay under pressure from skilled workers (from India, for example) who will work for less money. But the main concern for the rest of society is unskilled, low-wage workers, a large number of whom are illegal. And even then, the concern only kicks in when they come in numbers that are sufficiently large relative to the size of the community they move into. Nobody even cares if it's five illegal immigrant guys who come without their families, bunk in one apartment, and send all their money home.
There's the schools issue, of course, especially when a lot of students who don't speak English turn up all at once. There's the fact that immigrants in large numbers are less likely to assimilate than immigrants who come in small groups. There's the fact that enough of these workers will drive down wages for everyone, which admittedly is a feature rather than a bug for the people who want to employ them. There's what happens to a neighborhood, an apartment complex for example, when there are five adults and a large number of children in half the apartments rather than just in one.
The list goes on and on. But the main pattern is that, even for people like me who think immigration is generally good, scale and pace are important. There are lots of things that are terrific if one person does them, but disasterous if several million people do them all at the same time and place. Very large immigration flows can fall into that category.
Why are our elites so politically tone deaf sometimes? We have the highest unemployment rate in twenty five years. The only immigrants we should be welcoming now are those who fit one of three criteria:
1) Funded entrepreneurs and businessmen who will start businesses here and create jobs for Americans (not just for the entrepreneurs' relatives from their countries of origin).
2) Truly exceptional individuals -- great scientists, engineers, etc. -- world-beating types who want to come here.
3) Physicians, assuming we can reform our current licensing requirements which make highly-qualified foreign physicians re-do their entire residencies to practice here. Let foreign physicians from a select list of countries practice here if they can pass a rigorous, comprehensive licensing test in English and perhaps work under the supervision of an American attending physician for six months. That will reduce our physician shortage and drive down physician wages a little, which should reduce health care costs.
That's pretty much it. Low-skilled immigrants (legal or not) lower wages and increase unemployment for native unskilled workers. They also consume more in government benefits than they pay in taxes. There is no logical reason to bring in more of them.
Higher-skilled (but not truly exceptional) immigrants lower wages and increase unemployment in their fields. During boom times with full employment, it might make sense to bring in more of them, but not now, when there are so many applicants for every job opening.
Category 1 already exists. You can literally legally buy a green card if you have $500k to invest and create at least 10 jobs. Yearly quota: 10000. Actual used? About 100.
I'm aware of that -- there was a WSJ article about it a year or two ago. I think the bar is a little high there though. How about just having $200k and creating 2 jobs?
The line starts here (where ever here may be). Get in line, learn the language, use the language, read the language, write the language, apply, pay your fees and when the time comes you will be welcomed. Want to skip to the front of the line then as DaveinHackensack suggests, bring a useful skill.
Regarding the jobs that Americans do not want, I suspect the bar is lower today and Americans would accept most of those jobs if they paid a fair wage. Sorry you will no longer get you office cleaned for 8 dollars a day or be able to buy a 99 cent chicken sandwich, get over it.
The question I would like answered is this; if the immigrants are not here to clean your office and kill your chicken, how much more are you willing to pay for these services? If the answer is zero, first you are a cheap ________ second, sit down and shut up. Nothing in life is free. Immigration and cheap products are two side of the same coin. You cannot have one without the other.
As a third plus generation US citizen and a Senior Engineer in the High Tech industry, I am disappointed to see my fellow Americans misunderstand what the immigrant engine provides to our economy. Many of my coworkers are not citizens and can not vote to give some balance to this issue. Some have had the frustration and anxiety of immigration laws which threaten them with deportation, despite being upstanding citizens in their community, paying their taxes, and helping to innovate the toys we Americans like to play with (Cell phones, Set top Cable and Satellite boxes, Computers, etc.).
As a third plus generation American, I am a minority in my work place. I have superiors with names like Carlos, and Ozzie, and Eduardo. There are other countries represented as well, coworkers with names like Shahram, Thuan, Jatin, Manu, Tejas, Mohammed, Karthik, Sajjad, Thy, Viet, Ngyuen, Praveen, Sagar, Chong. These are very intelligent people who have come to the United States for education and hope for a better life. They help develop the next technologies, because my fellow Americans were not willing to join me in the engineering and science classes which help cultivate the understanding needed to innovate. Many of the American names in my company do lower level work like office supply and secretarial.
I challenge those complaining to do a search of the professors at leading engineering and medical Universities in the United States and look at the names of the faculty and the graduate staff. You will be surprised at the numbers who were not born in the United States. Many did not have notoriety before coming here.
The United States has always been known for draining the brain power of other countries with the promise of a better life. Recent immigration laws have changed this causing some foreign students to go back to their country with the education they acquired here. We are helping to give those countries the brain power to cultivate innovation outside the United States.
I don’t believe that our government needs to limit legal immigration. I think we need to encourage those completing higher education to stay in our country. It’s too bad we don’t allow anyone who pays taxes to vote. (“Taxation without representation” That seems to sound familiar) Maybe we would have a different discussion then.
There's a huge difference between low-IQ and high-IQ immigration. Illegal immigration from a poor country floods the US with the former.
Illegal immigration from a poor country floods the US with the former.
Right. Because everybody knows the Chinese are stupid.
Better right wing trolls, please!
How about better leftwing trolls? You knew he was talking about immigration from Mexico, where many of the immigrants aren't even literate in Spanish, being rural Indians. They aren't that smart. Neither are their children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren. They don't have the chops of most European or Northeast Asian immigrants, by any measure.
You knew he was talking about immigration from Mexico...
Horace: I didn't know or not know what he was talking about. In other words, I didn't bother to consider his intent, because I was simply making the obviously valid claim that it is wrong to generalize about the attributes of immigrants from "poor countries." That's the thing about us left-wingers: we have this horrible tendency to avoid making generalizations based on ethnicity or race.
horrible tendency to avoid making generalizations based on ethnicity or race.
Nature must be horrible for ignoring left wing sensibilities, because the IQ tests don't lie.
Illegal immigrants are here because someone is employing them. Stop employing them and they will have no reason to be here. Stop picking them up at Home Depot for the Saturday project or the cleaning service or the picking of crops or the construction jobs. Make stiff penalties for those caught paying them. We will all see food prices go up and other services as well, but that is the price to pay for deterring people from illegally living in our country.
We are causing our own problem by wanting products and services cheap.
By the way, some of my Mexican classmates have parents that found their way here with less than a high school education and questionable legal status.
"We will all see food prices go up and other services as well, but that is the price to pay for deterring people from illegally living in our country."
If our current immigration laws were strictly enforced, I doubt it would create much upward pressure on food costs. Most likely, American farmers would look to replace unskilled immigrant labor with automation, and inventors would come up with solutions for them. The manufacturing, selling, and maintenance of these new machines would create higher-paying, higher-skilled jobs, as an added bonus. If that didn't happen, worst case scenario would be that we keep buying lettuce picked by Mexican workers, except we import it from Mexican workers working on lettuce farms in Mexico. That way, we'd still get the cheap lettuce, but externalities of the unskilled Mexican worker (the costs of educating his children, providing him and his family with health care, etc.) would stay in Mexico.
I agree.